Dirtiest Trials of the Twentieth Century
The Who's Who Worldwide Registry Tragedy

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Masters and Millionaires

3705
1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, : CR 96 1016(S-1)
4 v. : U.S. Courthouse
5 Uniondale, New York BRUCE W. GORDON, WHO'S WHO
6 WORLD WIDE REGISTRY, INC., : STERLING WHO'S WHO, INC.,
7 TARA GARBOSKI, ORAL FRANK : OSMAN, LAURA WEITZ, ANNETTE
8 HALEY, SCOTT MICHAELSON, : STEVE RUBIN, and MARTIN
9 REFFSIN, : TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
10 Defendants. : February 11, 1998
11 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X 9:30 o'clock a.m.
12 BEFORE:
13 HONORABLE ARTHUR D. SPATT, U.S.D.J. and a jury
14 APPEARANCES:
15 For the Government: ZACHARY W. CARTER
16 United States Attorney One Pierrepont Plaza
17 Brooklyn, New York 11201
By: RONALD G. WHITE, ESQ.
18 CECIL SCOTT, ESQ. Assistant U.S. Attorneys
19 For the Defendants: NORM AN TRABULUS, ESQ.
20 For Bruce W. Gordon
170 Old Country Road, Suite 600
21 Mineola, New York 11501
22 EDWARD P. JENKS, ESQ.
For Who's Who Worldwide
23 Registry, Inc. and
Sterling Who's, Who, Inc.
24 332 Willis Avenue
Mineola, New York 11501
25
(cont'd)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3706
1 APPEARANCES (cont'd):
2 GARY SCHOER, ESQ. For Tara Garboski
3 6800 Jericho Turnpike
Syosset, New York 11791
4
ALAN M. NELSON, ESQ.
5 For Oral Frank Osman
3000 Marcus Avenue
6 Lake Success, New York 11042

7 WINSTON LEE, ESQ.
For Laura Weitz
8 319 Broadway
New York, New York 10007
9
MARTIN GEDULDIG, ESQ.
10 For Annette Haley
400 South Oyster Bay Road
11 Hicksville, New York 11801
12 JAMES C. NEVILLE, ESQ.
For Scott Michaelson
13 225 Broadway
New York, New York 10007
14
THOMAS F.X. DUNN, ESQ.
15 For Steve Rubin
150 Nassau Street
16 New York, New York 10038
17 JOHN S. WALLENSTEIN, ESQ.
For Martin Reffsin 18 215 Hilton Avenue
Hempstead, New York 11551
19
20 Court Reporter: HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR
United States District Court
21 Two Uniondale Avenue
Uniondale, New York 11553
22 (516) 485-6558
23
Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript
24 produced by Computer-Assisted Transcription
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3707
1 M O R N I N G S E S S I O N
2

3 (The following takes place in the absence of the

4 jury.)

5 THE COURT: Did you want to speak to me,

6 Mr. Trabulus? Is everybody here?

7 MR. TRABULUS: I haven't taken attendance, I am

8 not sure. I haven't seen Mr. Geduldig. I think a couple

9 of people are in the room, and I will get them.
10 MR. NEVILLE: I would like to address the Court.
11 THE COURT: You can't do anything until I find
12 out if everybody is here.
13 MR. NEVILLE: Good morning.
14 THE COURT: Good morning.
15 MR. SCHOER: Mr. Lee is in the building.
16 THE COURT: Where is he?
17 MR. SCHOER: I saw him walking up to the men's
18 room about five minutes ago.
19 THE COURT: Are all the defendants here today and
20 on time?
21 THE DEFENDANT WEITZ: With bright shiny faces.
22 MR. GEDULDIG: They are early.
23 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
24 proceedings.)
25 THE COURT: Yes, Mr. Trabulus.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3708
1 MR. WHITE: I would ask when the jury comes in,
2 they are given limiting instructions with respect to the

3 second and third tape played yesterday. One under the

4 current state of the record is admissible against the

5 corporation Who's Who Worldwide and Mr. Osman. The other

6 against the defendant Laura Winters, I mean Laura Weitz,

7 and the corporation Who's Who Worldwide.

8 I think as the tapes are played, unfortunately,

9 there would be repeated limiting instructions because each
10 one relates to one particular corporation and one
11 defendant.
12 THE COURT: I will give those instructions.
13 We will wait for the juror. There is one juror
14 that is missing.
15
16 (Whereupon, a recess is taken.)
17
18 THE COURT: Alternate juror number four is not
19 here. We do not have any telephone call or message from
20 alternate juror number four. My courtroom deputy clerk
21 called the residence of alternate juror number four.
22 What happened?
23 THE CLERK: There was only an answering machine,
24 and I left a message.

25 The juror apparently lives in Queens County, not

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3709
1 too far from here. And apparently drives to court. We
2 have no message and we don't know where this juror is.

3 MR. NELSON: I believe what might have occurred,

4 there was a serious accident on the Long Island Expressway

5 closing the highway just past where you get on the

6 Northern State. I beat it this morning, but that's where

7 the fork is where you get off of the LIE to get on to the

8 Northern State.

9 MR. JENKS: I drive that way in the morning, your
10 Honor. And exit 40 on the Long Island Expressway heading
11 east was closed.
12 MR. LEE: A truck was on fire, your Honor.
13 MR. GEDULDIG: I heard an oil truck was on fire.
14 THE COURT: It sounds like there were disasters
15 all over the place. How unusual?

16 Nevertheless, I will not wait indefinitely for
17 this juror.
18 What do you want to do? It is now a half an
19 hour?
20 MR. NEVILLE: Judge, can I suggest we wait a
21 little bit longer and see?
22 THE COURT: I suggest we wait until a quarter
23 after 10:00. That's three-quarters of an hour. Certainly
24 the juror could have gotten someplace to make a call.
25 Is that agreeable?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3710
1 MR. NELSON: Yes.
2 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Yes.

3 MR. TRABULUS: Yes.

4 THE COURT: I will tell the jurors we are waiting

5 for the other juror. Any objection to that?

6 MR. WALLENSTEIN: No.

7 MR. NEVILLE: No objection.

8 MR. TRABULUS: No.

9 (The following takes place in the jury room.)
10 THE COURT: Good morning.
11 There was an old -- not an old -- I don't think

12 it is an old movie. You might think it is an old mo vie.
13 It took place in World War II, and probably most of you
14 were not born at that time.
15 A JUROR: I was in it.
16 THE COURT: All right.
17 It says One of Our Aircraft is Missing.
18 That's the name of our movie.
19 Well, one of our jurors is missing. Alternate
20 juror number four.
21 Now, I discussed it with the lawyers. They as
22 much as I would, we are going to wait for the juror. We
23 will wait until a quarter after 10:00 to get here.
24 Obviously something happened on the road, but we cannot
25 wait indefinitely. We will wait until a quarter after

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3711
1 10:00. I apologize for keeping you waiting. This time it
2 wasn't my fault. All the other times it was my fault, I

3 will tell you that now.

4 See you later.

5

6 (Whereupon, a recess is taken.)

7

8 THE COURT: I am pleased to advise you that the

9 juror has arrived.
10 THE CLERK: Jury entering.
11 (Whereupon, the jury at this time entered the
12 courtroom.)
13 THE COURT: Good morning again to the 15 of you,
14 and good morning again for the first time to alternate
15 juror number four.
16 We are happy you were able to overcome the
17 problems you had, juror number four, and thank you for
18 being dedicated.
19 You may proceed.
20 MS. SCOTT: The government calls James Spencer.
21 THE CLERK: Please raise your right hand.
22 J A M E S S P E N C E R ,
23 called as a witness, having been first
24 duly sworn, was examined and testified
25 as follows:

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3712
1
2 T HE CLERK: Please state your name and spell your

3 last name slowly for the record.

4 THE WITNESS: James Spencer, S P E N C E R.

5 THE COURT: You may proceed.

6 MS. SCOTT: Thank you, your Honor.

7

8 DIRECT EXAMINATION

9 BY MS. SCOTT:
10 Q Good morning, Mr. Spencer.
11 A Good morning.
12 Q Can you tell us where you live?
13 A I live in Las Vegas, Nevada.
14 Q What do you do for a living?
15 A A registered representative for a securities firm.
16 Q What is the name of that firm?
17 A WMA Securities, Inc.
18 Q How long have you held that job?
19 A Approximately a year and a half.
20 Q What are your responsibilities in that job?
21 A Basically I meet with individuals, families, small
22 businesses, I show them strategies to get better rates of
23 return on their investments, save for retirement and avoid
24 as much tax as possible on those investments.
25 Q What did you do before you took that position?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3713
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 A Prior to that, to this position, I was a junior
2 officer at a bank located and headquartered in Las Vegas.

3 Q What bank is that?

4 A P R I M E R I T, one word, Primerit.

5 Q What was your position at Primerit?

6 A I was an assistant vice president for budgeting and

7 planning.

8 Q And what were your duties in that job?

9 A My primary responsibilities were the administration
10 of the annual budget process, as well as forecasting
11 interest rate risk management, and investment portfolio
12 managing.
13 Q You were in that position --
14 THE COURT: Before you go any further, I just
15 wanted to instruct the jury with regard to the tapes you
16 heard, tape recordings you heard yesterday, the last two
17 tape recordings -- the next to the last recording, I
18 instruct you that that evidence is only to be considered
19 against the corporation, Who's Who Worldwide Registry,
20 Inc., and the defendant Osman.
21 The last tape that you heard yesterday afternoon
22 is to be considered only against the corporation, Who's
23 Who Worldwide Registry, Inc., and the defendant Tara -- I
24 am sorry, withdrawn. And the defendant Laura Weitz. I
25 repeat that. The last tape is only to be considered by

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3714
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 you against the defendant Who's Who Worldwide Registry,
2 Inc. and the defendant Laura Weitz, and only those

3 defendants.

4 You may proceed.

5 MS. SCOTT: Thank you, your Honor.

6 Q Mr. Spencer, how long were you an assistant vice

7 president at Primerit?

8 A Approximately six years.

9 Q Were you ever contacted by a company called Who's Who
10 Worldwide?
11 A Yes, I was.
12 Q And did you eventually purchase a membership from
13 them?
14 A Yes, I did.
15 Q Can you tell us how you were first contacted?
16 A I was first contacted via a phone call from a
17 representative of the company.
18 Q What happened in that conversation?
19 A Basically the representative explained to me that I
20 had been nominated for inclusion in Who's Who Worldwide.
21 She told me a little about the company.
22 She offered or said she was going to send out a
23 questionnaire I was to answer and forward back to her.
24 THE COURT: Excuse me.
25 You have to pull the microphone a little closer,

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3715
Spencer-direct /Scott

1 please.
2 THE WITNESS: Sorry.

3 THE COURT: And speak up, please.

4 Q Did you receive anything in the mail from them?

5 A After the phone call, yes, I did.

6 Q What did you receive?

7 A I received a questionnaire which I subsequently

8 completed and mailed back.

9 Q What was included with the questionnaire, if
10 anything?
11 A I don't recall.
12 Q Was there a letter?
13 A Yes. There was a letter explaining, you know, the
14 company, and the questionnaire process.
15 Q Do you remember what the letter said?
16 A No, I don't.
17 Q I am showing you Exhibit 41-D, as in Daniel, for
18 Identification.
19 (Handed to the witness.)
20 Q Can you tell us what that is?
21 A It is a postcard which I filled out and mailed back
22 to the company.
23 MS. SCOTT: I offer Government's Exhibit 41-D.
24 T HE COURT: Any objection?
25 MR. TRABULUS: No.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3716
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 41-D, for Dog,
2 in evidence.

3 (Government's Exhibit 41-D received in evidence.)

4 Q Is that the questionnaire you received from the

5 company?

6 A This is not the questionnaire. This is a -- it says

7 it is an invitation to be included in the company's

8 directory.

9 Q Does that -- does your handwriting appear on that
10 document?
11 A Yes, it does.
12 Q Can you turn over Government's Exhibit 41-D and read
13 the postmark on it.
14 A Las Vegas, Nevada, the 7th of April, 1993.
15 Q What happened after you sent this card in?
16 A After sending the postcard away, approximately
17 several days later I received a call back from the
18 representative, the same one I talked with earlier. And
19 at that time she said that she had some questions to go
20 through with me.
21 Q In that conversation what were you told about the
22 company and about the membership?
23 A I was told first of all that it was a member-run
24 organization, meaning it was run by and for the benefit of
25 its members; that I had been nominated for inclusion in

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3717
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 this Who's Who Registry of global business leaders, and
2 that there were certain qualifications, or criteria that

3 needed to be met to insure that I was in fact qualified to

4 be included in this Registry. And she was then going to

5 go through some of those criteria with me, in an evidence

6 to determine if I met the standards.

7 Q Were you told anything else about your membership in

8 Who's Who Worldwide?

9 A I was told several other things, that some of the
10 benefits of membership included not only the publication
11 in the Registry of global business leaders, but also that
12 there would be a quarterly magazine, an entire
13 publication, detailing some activities, and the profiles
14 of members, as well as local and regional type of
15 conferences that I would have an opportunity to attend.
16 I was told that, that I would also receive, upon
17 meeting the criteria, that I would receive a plaque
18 suitable for hanging in the office; I would have an
19 opportunity to purchase a CD-ROM version of the Registry
20 at some point in the future, and that I would have an
21 opportunity to take advantage of an affinity type credit
22 card program with the Who's Who logo on it, like a Master
23 Card or Visa.
24 Q Are you able to remember anythin g else you were told
25 in this conversation?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3718
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 A Well, I was told, again, that I was nominated for
2 inclusion in this directory, and that there were two basic

3 ways that people were qualified to join, one being by a

4 nomination of another member; and the other being a

5 certain limited number of people who would be invited to

6 join on the basis of their publicized accomplishments or

7 success in business. These would be something on the

8 order of famous type people.

9 Q Did you ask any questions during this phone
10 interview?
11 A Yes. I inquired about who in fact nominated me for
12 inclusion in this directory.
13 I also asked, you know, again, what exactly would
14 be the opportunities for networking with peers and other
15 associates that may be included in the directory.
16 Q And what response did you get to your question about
17 who had nominated you?
18 A I was told that that information was not available to
19 the person calling in.
20 Q What was the most important thing that they said to
21 you that led to the purchase of the membership?
22 A The two most important things were the fact that I
23 had been nominated by someone known to me, and also the
24 opportunities to potentially network with people in my own
25 industry, as well as perhaps other industries, on a local

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3719
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 or regional type level.
2 Q How did your perception that you had been nominated

3 relate to your perception of how you would use the

4 membership?

5 A I am not sure I understand your question. Basically

6 my percepti on --

7 MR. GEDULDIG: Objection, Judge.

8 THE COURT: No, if you don't understand the

9 question, Mr. Spencer, counsel will clarify it for you.
10 MS. SCOTT: I will clarify the question, your
11 Honor.
12 Q How did your understanding that you had been
13 nominated or other members had been nominated, how did
14 that relate to your idea of how you were going to use the
15 membership?
16 A Well, basically the fact that I had been nominated by
17 someone known to me, it was very important to me insofar
18 as being able to network with other members, as well as to
19 utilize -- well, I was also told that I would have
20 received camera ready artwork with real business cards and
21 stationery, and that type of thing. And that was
22 important insofar as using that, and insofar as meeting
23 with people in the local business community.
24 Q Why was it impor tant to you that you had been
25 nominated?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3720
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 A Well, to me it reflected, you know, in someone's
2 mind, that I or definitions, or what have you, of being a

3 person successful in my field, and that was extremely

4 important to me.

5 Q Now, if your name had been obtained not by nomination

6 from another member, but from a mailing list, would that

7 have affected your decision to purchase?

8 A Yes, it would.

9 Q How would it have affected your decision?
10 A I would not have attached any real value on being
11 associated with other people on a mailing list.
12 Q And weigh is that?
13 A Well, there would be no -- people on a mailing list,
14 there would be no assurance or no real criteria having
15 been met, or in any one's mind that these people were, yo u
16 know, successful leaders in the business community.
17 Q Now, how much did you pay for your membership?
18 A Approximately $300.
19 Q I am showing you Government's Exhibit 41-B, as in
20 Boy, for Identification.
21 (Handed to the witness.)
22 Q Do you recognize that?
23 A Yes, I do.
24 Q What is that?
25 A It is an invoice from Who's Who, showing my five year

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3721
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 membership with an amount due of $290.
2 MS. SCOTT: Your Honor, I offer

3 Government's Exhibit 41-B.

4 THE COURT: Any objection?

5 MR. TRABULUS: No.

6 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 41-B, for Baker,

7 in evidence.

8 (Government's Exhibit 41-B received in evidence.)

9 Q Now, just looking, you mentioned that that document
10 shows the details of your purcha se?
11 A Uh-huh.
12 Q And the amount given is $290, I believe you
13 testified?
14 A Yes, with shipping charges added of seven dollars.
15 Q Can you tell us the date of that document?
16 A Invoice dated 4/15/93.
17 Q Now, I am showing you Government's Exhibit 41-C, as
18 in Charles, which is in evidence.
19 (Handed to the witness.)
20 Q Can you take a look at that document.
21 Does your name appear there?
22 A Yes, it does.
23 Q If you look at the upper right-hand corner of that
24 page, can you tell us whose name is listed there?
25 A It looks like Annette Haley.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3722
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 Q Is there other information on that document that is
2 familiar to you?

3 A There is some handwriting down here with some notes

4 apparently taken from my telepho ne conversation.

5 Q Is there information about you on there?

6 A Yes, there is my title, assistant vice president for

7 Primerit Bank, my favorite vacation place, southwestern

8 U.S. , favorite magazine, Expertise; favorite author and

9 some other information that I can't really make out the
10 handwriting on.
11 Q How did you pay for the membership?
12 A With a credit card.
13 Q How did you give your credit card number to the
14 company?
15 A Over the phone.
16 Q Did you receive a plaque?
17 A Yes, I did.
18 Q And did you receive a directory?
19 A No, I did not.
20 Q I am showing you now Government's Exhibit 41-F, as in
21 Frank. That's for identification.
22 (Handed to the witness.)
23 Q Do you recognize that?
24 A Yes.
25 Q What is it?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

372 3
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 A An invoice for $101.75 in additional billing.
2 MS. SCOTT: I offer Government's Exhibit 41-F.

3 THE COURT: Any objection?

4 MR. TRABULUS: No.

5 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 41-F, for Fox,

6 in evidence.

7 (Government's Exhibit 41-F received in evidence.)

8 Q Did you receive that invoice?

9 A Yes, I did.
10 Q And does it indicate what that additional payment is
11 for?
12 A Not really. It says description, final payment.
13 Q And what is the date on that?
14 A It is dated January 26th, 1994.
15 Q Now, when you received that invoice, what did you do?
16 A I did not pay it. I didn't respond.
17 Q And why is that?
18 A I had been led to believe in my telephone
19 conversations earlier that, you know, the $297 that I had
20 previously paid was an all inclusive amount to offset
21 printing c osts for the directory, the art, the camera
22 ready art work, and the other benefits I had already
23 received.
24 Q Who led you to believe that?
25 A The person I spoke with over the phone. I don't

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3724
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 remember the woman's name.
2 Q If you can just take a look at 41-B in front of you,

3 and that's B as in Boy, do you see a blue box at the

4 bottom of that document?

5 A Yes.

6 Q You are looking at the invoice?

7 A Yes, I am.

8 Q Can you read to us the language that appears in that

9 blue box.
10 A It says: Important information by membership
11 preference and for your convenience, the membership
12 amount --
13 THE COURT: Don't we know what it says? It is
14 the same as in any other invoice we have seen.
15 MS. SCOTT: Yes.

16 THE COURT: It has something about a split bill;
17 is that correct?
18 MS. SCOTT: Yes.
19 THE COURT: We don't have to read that into the
20 record. We have seen it a number of times.
21 MS. SCOTT: Your Honor, I am mistaken, it is
22 different from the others we have read. Some of the
23 invoices mention --
24 THE COURT: Why don't you read it, and do it
25 slowly.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3725
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 MS. SCOTT: I do it?
2 THE COURT: Yes.

3 You have heard me say it 38 times at least, and

4 this witness hasn't. Namely, when you read you have to

5 read slowly.

6 MS. SCOTT: Okay.

7 THE COURT: Have you heard me say that?

8 MS. SCOTT: Yes, I will be glad to read slowly.

9 By membership preference and for your
10 convenience, the membership amount has been spli t-billed.
11 The final payment shown is due now. Your Who's Who
12 Registry platinum edition would be shipped to you within
13 three to six weeks after payment has been received. There
14 are no additional dues or charges after the initial year.
15 We look forward to providing you with important membership
16 privileges and services for many years to come.
17 Your Honor, may I publish these exhibits that I
18 placed before Mr. Spencer?
19 THE COURT: Yes.
20 (Whereupon, the exhibit/exhibits were published
21 to the jury.)
22 Q Did you get any of the other items you were told you
23 would receive?
24 A I did receive a very nice looking plaque through the
25 mail. I received the camera-ready art work that was

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3726
Spencer-direct/Scott

1 promised for the use on business cards and st ationery. I
2 also subsequently received an offer for the affinity

3 credit card through I believe the NBNA Bank, which I

4 subsequently took advantage of.

5 Q Did you ever receive a directory?

6 A No, I did not.

7 Q Were you ever contacted again by the company after

8 that?

9 A Well, other than the invoice which was sent to me in
10 January of '94, I believe someone did call from the
11 company after some amount of time had passed, after I did
12 not respond or pay that invoice.
13 Q Did you ever pay the invoice?
14 A No, I did not.
15 MS. SCOTT: Thank you.
16 No further questions.
17 THE COURT: Cross-examination.
18
19 CROSS-EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. TRABULUS:
21 Q Good morning, Mr. Spencer.
22 After you got the second invoice which asked for
23 an additional payment of $101 and change, did you call
24 Who's Who Worldwide to find out what it was about?
25 A I believe they contacted me before I had a chance to

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3727
Spencer-cross/Trabulus

1 call.
2 Q Did you in speaking to them indicate that the invoice

3 you received was a final payment --

4 A Would you repeat that?

5 Q You received 41-B, for -- the invoice for the $290;

6 is that correct?

7 A Yes.

8 Q It says that the payment was a final payment?

9 A Yes.
10 Q And did you call the attention of the person who
11 spoke to you from Who's Who Worldwide that you had had in
12 your hand an invoice indicating you had already made the
13 final payment?
14 A Yes, I did.
15 Q And what did they tell you about that?
16 A They told me that the directory itself was not
17 included in that initial invoice, and that's what the

18 invoice for $101.75 --
19 Q Di d they ask you to see a copy of the invoice that
20 you had in your hand?
21 THE COURT: Did you get the last few words of the
22 witness' answer?
23 THE COURT REPORTER: I did not, your Honor.
24 (Whereupon, the court reporter reads the
25 requested material.)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3728
Spencer-cross/Trabulus

1 THE COURT: Conclude your answer.
2 THE WITNESS: The $101.75 was for the directory

3 itself, the hard copy. That's what I was told.

4 Q Did you tell them that it appeared that some kind of

5 mistake was made based on the invoice you originally

6 received of $290?

7 A Yes, I did. I did. I told them that I was under the

8 impression that the $290 I paid previously had included

9 the directory itself, and that, you know, I believe that
10 to be the f inal payment for the five year membership.
11 Q Do you know the name of the person you spoke to when
12 you had this conversation?
13 A No, I don't.
14 Q Did you ask to speak to this person's supervisor or
15 superior?
16 A No, I didn't.
17 Q You don't know as you are there today whether or not
18 your name was actually included in a directory, do you?
19 A I have not seen a copy of the directory, no.
20 Q I am going to show you what has been previously
21 received as Defendant's Exhibit Q in evidence, and I will
22 direct your attention to page 837, to the entry I am
23 pointing to.
24 (Handed to the witness.)
25 Q Mr. Spencer, does that appear to be an entry that

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3729
Spencer-cross/Trabulus

1 would be consistent with the information that you gave the
2 person you had initially spoken to?

3 A Yes, it does.

4 Q Also, Mr. Spencer, I am going to show you another

5 directory which has been marked as Defendant's Exhibit P,

6 and I am going to direct you to page 750, P in evidence.

7 (Handed to the witness.)

8 Q Excuse me, not 750, 751.

9 Again, does the same entry appear?
10 A Yes, it does.
11 Q Did you ever receive the Tribute Magazine, sir?
12 A Yes, I did.
13 Q And how many did you receive?
14 A I don't remember the exact number, but probably
15 something like half a dozen.
16 Q And did you read them?
17 A Yes, I did.
18 Q Did they appear to you to be of -- to contain
19 information concerning other members?
20 A Yes, they contained information on other business
21 leaders, the international, you know, national type,
22 level.
23 Q Did you see any profiles of members?
24 A Yes, I did.
25 Q And did you also see smaller entries concerning

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3730
Spencer-cross/Trabulus

1 members, which were under Member Spotlights? Do you
2 recall that?

3 A I don't recall that.

4 Q Did you utilize Tribute at all in your business?

5 A How do you mean, in my business?

6 Q Well, did you attempt to contact any of the people

7 listed there to see if they would have any need for your

8 banking services?

9 A No, I did not.
10 Q When I referred to Member Spotlights, I am going to
11 show you what is marked as Defendant's -- actually Gordon
12 Defendant's Exhibit C, the volume of Tribute, and I am
13 asking you if you recall seeing anything like that?
14 A I don't recall seeing the exact page here. But in
15 general this appears to be a copy of a magazine that I
16 would have received.
17 Q Did you ever consider, sir, attempting to get
18 yourself spotlighted in Tribute?
19 A I don't know how I would have done that.
20 Q Did you ever consider contacting Who's Who Worldwide
21 to see whether or not there might be a small article or a
22 squib inserted about yourself in Tribute?
23 A No, I didn't.
24 Q When you were spoken to originally, you were told
25 about the CD-ROM, were you?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3731
Spencer-cross/Trabulus

1 A Yes. I was told in the future there would be an
2 opportunity to purchase a CD-ROM version of the directory.

3 Q Was it explained to you that that would be a

4 particular problem in networking?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Did you ever pursue that to get the CD-ROM version of

7 the directory?

8 A No. I was never offered any further mailings or any

9 offers for that particular product.
10 Q I think you testified -- withdrawn.
11 As you sit here today, do you know whether or not
12 your name came from a mailing list or whether another
13 member nominated you?
14 A No, I don't.
15 Q You indicated that you received a telephone call from
16 somebody at Who's Who before you received anything in the
17 mail from them?
18 A That's correct.
19 Q Are you certain about that?
20 A Yes, I am.
21 Q If you indeed had been nominated by another member,
22 although some of the other people in the book, who are in
23 the membership, had been obtained from the mailing list,
24 would it have affected your decision as to whether or not
25 to become a member?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3732
Spencer-cross/Trabulus

1 A Are you telling me in fact that other people in the
2 book were from a mailing list?

3 Q Accepting that some of the people, indeed, the

4 majority were from a mailing list, and if you were

5 nominated by another member, would you have purchased?

6 A Probably not.

7 Q If the mailing lists themselves were selected and had

8 people who are like yourself, and perhaps even further

9 advanced in their careers, would that have affected your
10 decision?
11 A No, it wouldn't.
12 Q When I showed you the entry for yourself in the two
13 directories, it indicated your title as assistant vice
14 president; is that correct?
15 A Yes, that's correct.
16 Q It wasn't changed to associate, or just vice
17 president?
18 A No.
19 Q It appeared with the word assistant?
20 A I believe it did.
21 Q When you heard that you were nominated by somebody,
22 you felt it was satisfying to your ego or it was an ego
23 stroke or something that made you feel very good?
24 A Yes. It definitely did make me feel good that
25 someone had recognized my accomplishments or level of

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3733
Spencer-cross/Trabulus

1 success.
2 Q And that feeling good was not something that you had

3 to pay for; is that correct? In other words, that came

4 with the mailing and with the telephone call; is that

5 correct?

6 A What came with the mailing and the telephone call?

7 Q The information that you had been nominated, you got

8 that ego stroke without having to pay for it, depart with

9 any money or property; is that correct?
10 A I was told I was nominated without having to pay for
11 it.
12 Q In terms of you feeling good, the fact that you might
13 have to pay down the road, it wouldn't n ecessarily make
14 you feel any better. It is something that had already
15 happened; is that correct?
16 A Correct.
17 Q What you would be paying for is a membership in an
18 organization that you would be able to utilize for
19 networking and business purposes; is that correct?
20 A Yes. And what I was told is what I was also paying
21 for was in fact to offset the printing cost, the
22 distribution cost for the directory itself.
23 Q Nobody is questioning that you were indeed sent an
24 invoice indicating you didn't have to pay anything extra
25 in your particular case. But the question I am asking you

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3734
Spencer-cross/Trabulus

1 about is, you were paying, were you not, for membership in
2 an organization which provided certain business advantages

3 to you in a listing; is that corr ect?

4 A Yes.

5 Q And now you saw you -- you see you were indeed in the

6 listing, although you didn't get a copy of the directory;

7 is that correct?

8 A That's correct.

9 Q And if a business makes a mistake and sends you the
10 wrong form, and then in dealing with you, treats you as if
11 they sent another form which provided for you having to
12 pay extra down the road, it doesn't mean anyone
13 intentionally defrauded you, does it?
14 MS. SCOTT: Objection.
15 THE COURT: Sustained.
16 THE WITNESS: Did you want me to answer it?
17 THE COURT: No. Don't answer it. If I say
18 "sustained" don't answer the question.
19 MR. TRABULUS: I have no further questions.
20
21 CROSS-EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. GEDULDIG:
23 Q Mr. Spencer, you say you are presently employed, I
24 believe as a stockbroker; is that correct?
25 A No. I a m a registered representative, I am not

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3735
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 licensed to sell individual securities.
2 Q And what does that mean? Exactly what does your job

3 entail?

4 A Like I said before, it deals with families, dealing

5 with families, small business owners, analyzing their

6 needs and determining investment vehicles such as mutual

7 funds, annuities, veritable products that may be suitable

8 to their particular charities and goals.

9 Q Do you have it in mind at a future time to becoming a
10 stockbroker?
11 A No.
12 Q Prior to the present job you have you worked for a
13 bank in Las Vegas?
14 A That's correct.
15 Q What did you do in that bank?
16 A I worked in the treasury area of the bank. I was
17 responsible for the management of the annual budget

18 process. I ran financial forecasts, rather analysis of
19 the banks hedging of -- for it securities portfolio.
20 Q Now, with regard to the job you are presently
21 holding, you deal with individuals and small businesses?
22 A Yes.
23 Q You make recommendations?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Financial recommendations; is that correct?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3736
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 A Yes.
2 Q When you were with the bank you said you managed

3 their hedging portfolio?

4 A That's correct.

5 Q And in that job you made recommendations to the bank;

6 is that right?

7 A The management of the bank, yes.

8 Q Financial recommendations?

9 A Yes.
10 Q And have you been correct 100 percent of the time?
11 A Have I been correct 100 percent of the time?
12 Q Right.
13 A Correct in what respect?
14 Q That every financial investment that you advised
15 either a small business, an individual, or your bank
16 employer to take part in was successful?
17 A Yes. I believe I have.
18 Q 100 percent of the time?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And when you talked to these individuals that you
21 presently talked to, do you tell them that you are
22 correct, and that you had been correct every time you made
23 a recommendation?
24 A No, I don't.
25 Q What do you say to them?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3737
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 A I say to them that I believe the strategy that I am
2 outlining to you is the best strategy in respect of your

3 goals and particular needs.

4 Q Do you tell them that you have never been wrong?

5 A No, I don't.

6 Q Because you could be wrong?

7 A Well, n o. I don't tell them I have never been wrong,

8 because I could be wrong, because I would be somewhat

9 of -- it would be somewhat of a promise or inducement to
10 do business with me.
11 Q So, you could be wrong in saying to them that this
12 investment could not fail, because I have never been
13 wrong? You wouldn't say that, would you?
14 A No, I would not say that.
15 Q So, if you were wrong in recommending an investment
16 to an individual or to a small business owner, you would
17 not expect to be indicted for that, would you?
18 A No, I wouldn't.
19 Q You are giving your best advice as you see it; is
20 that right?
21 A That's correct.
22 Q And if you are incorrect on some advice that you
23 gave, it was an honest mistake; is that right?
24 A I can't envision a case where I would be incorrect
25 after doing my analysis of the customers or the bank's

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3738
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 goals and needs.
2 Q You can't envision yourself ever being mistaken or

3 incorrect?

4 A Not insofar as understanding a person's needs or

5 goals.

6 Q Okay.

7 In the business that you are in now, do you rely

8 on mailing lists?

9 A No, I do not.
10 Q How do you get your customers?
11 A Through referrals of other customers -- well,
12 referrals of other customers primarily.
13 Q You work for a company?
14 A Yes, I do.
15 Q The company tells you about a customer?
16 A No, they do not.
17 Q The company doesn't refer any customers to you?
18 A The company does not refer any customers.
19 Q You said before you got the very first letter from
20 Who's Who Worldwide you got a telephone call from them?
21 A Yes, I did say that.
22 Q You got a call from somebody who said they were with
23 Who's Who Worldwide; is that right?
24 A Yes, that's correct.
25 Q And then you got the letter, correct?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3739
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 A Yes.
2 Q And after the letter you got several more telephone

3 calls from Who's Who Worldwide; is that right?

4 A One or two more at least.

5 Q So, at a minimum you got two calls, perhaps three or

6 more; is that right?

7 A That is correct.

8 Q Was it the same individual you spoke to on each

9 occasion?
10 A I believe it was.
11 Q And you don't remember that individual's name?
12 A No, I don't.
13 Q The name you saw on the form handed up to you by the
14 government, Ms. Scott, that was not a name that rang a
15 bell in your mind; is tha t right?
16 A Not particularly, no.
17 Q So, you cannot say that the person you spoke to from
18 Who's Who Worldwide was Annette Haley; is that right?
19 A Was what? I am sorry?
20 Q You cannot say that the person you spoke to on the
21 telephone from Who's Who Worldwide was Annette Haley?
22 A No, I can't say.
23 Q You cannot even say that the person you spoke to from
24 Who's Who Worldwide was a man or a woman?
25 A I can say definitely it was a woman.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3740
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 Q On each and every occasion?
2 A Yes.

3 Q Okay.

4 Have you ever in your experience referred, in

5 your present job have you ever referred a customer to a

6 co-worker of yours?

7 A No, I have.

8 Q Has any co-worker of yours ever referred a customer

9 to you for any reason?
10 A No, they have not.
11 Q Is that something that is on common in your field?
12 A It is not an entirely impossible, because it is not
13 the order of the day, so to speak.
14 Q Is there a phrase for it or a term, swapping, or
15 anything like that?
16 A No.
17 Q I think you indicated the two things important to you
18 when you joined Who's Who Worldwide were the fact that you
19 were going to be included with a number of other
20 prestigious people in a Registry; is that right?
21 A No, that was not one of the most important factors to
22 me.
23 Q What was?
24 A Again, the two most important factors was, number
25 one, the fact that I had been nominated by someone known

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3741
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 to me --
2 Q If I can stop you for a second, were you told that

3 you were nominated by someone known to you?

4 A Yes.

5 Q They told you that someone known to you nominated you

6 for inclusion in the Registry?

7 A That's correct.

8 Q Okay.

9 And what was the second factor?
10 A The second factor was that I would have the
11 opportunities to meet, interact with, network with people
12 in the Registry on a local and/or regional level.
13 Q Now, the networking would require you to know some of
14 the building people who were members of the Registry or
15 Who's Who Worldwide; is that correct?
16 A No, that's not correct. Networking would imply that
17 I would have the opportunity to meet other members of
18 Who's Who.
19 Q You would have to know who they were, right? You
20 would have to know their name? You would have to know an
21 address, you would have to know something about them
22 perha ps?
23 A No.
24 Q How do you network with people whose names you don't
25 know?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3742
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 A I was told there would be local or regional events at
2 which there would be opportunities to meet people.

3 Q Networking implies sometimes that calls are made?

4 You would call somebody or they might call you to get

5 together for such a regional event?

6 A Are you asking whether that implies that to me?

7 Q Yes.

8 A Sure, yes.

9 Q And you were shown your entry in the Registry, in two
10 of the registries published by Who's Who Worldwide?
11 A Yes. I was shown two books.
12 Q And you had spoken with the government attorneys
13 before you came here today?
14 A Yes, I have.
15 Q And on how many occasions have you spoken with them?
16 A Probabl y three or four.
17 Q And have you ever spoken with them while you were in
18 Las Vegas?
19 A Yes, I did.
20 Q On person or telephone?
21 A By phone.
22 Q How many times did you speak with them while you were
23 in Las Vegas?
24 A Probably three or four.
25 Q Do you recall who you spoke to?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3743
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 A I spoke with both Ron White and Ceci Scott from the
2 U.S. Attorneys office and Al Pagano from the postal

3 inspector's office.

4 Q Separate conversations?

5 A Probably two separate conversations with Al Pagano,

6 and there were conference calls in which both Ron and Al

7 spoke to me.

8 Q And the first call came from Mr. Pagano?

9 A That's correct.
10 Q And Mr. Pagano was asking primarily if you would be
11 willing to come to New York and testify in this case; is
12 that correct?
13 A He did not ask me if I would be willing to.
14 Q What did he ask you?
15 A He asked me about my experiences with Who's Who
16 Worldwide. And he said it may be required that I come to
17 New York and give my testimony.
18 Q He didn't give you an option? He said it would be
19 required for you to come?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And were you ever served with a subpoena?
22 A No, I was not.
23 Q And you were provided with some of the services used
24 by Who's Who Worldwide; is that correct?
25 A Yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3744
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 Q You used a credit card?
2 A Yes.

3 Q I believe you said you used some other items or

4 benefits which were provided to you?

5 A I read the magazine. I displayed my plaque. I did

6 not ever utilize the camera-ready artwork. But that was

7 available to me.

8 Q You didn't use a press release?

9 A No, I didn't.
10 Q You didn't get the Registry because you didn't pay
11 the $101?
12 A Apparently so.
13 Q Had the government attorneys or Mr. Pagano ever told
14 you there was some 492 members from the Registry in
15 Nevada?
16 A No, they never told me that.
17 Q Did he tell you that four of those members -- I am
18 sorry, three of the members are from Las Vegas and in the
19 banking industry, or in the financial industry?
20 A No, he did not.
21 Q Do you know a person by the name of Thomas Gutherie,
22 G U T H E R I E?
23 A No, I do not.
24 Q Do you know the company Southern Nevada Certified
25 Development Company?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3745
Spencer-cr oss/Geduldig

1 A No, I do not.
2 Q Do you know Velma C. Miller, M I L L E R, Velma,

3 V E L M A?

4 A No, I do not.

5 Q Do you know the Bank of America of Nevada?

6 A I know there is a Bank of America in Nevada.

7 Q Do you know Robert W. Smilely, S M I L E Y, Jr.,

8 chairman of the benefit capital companies in Longdale,

9 Nevada?
10 A No.
11 Q Have you ever heard of the company?
12 A No, I did not.
13 Q If you had gotten to the Registry and you had seen
14 names such as the ones I just read to you, is there the
15 prospect that you could have networked with some of those
16 people?
17 A Perhaps.
18 Q Not having the registry prevented you from doing some
19 of the networking, is that fair to say?
20 A Perhaps, yes.
21 Q When you decided to not pay the $101 for the
22 Registry, that is because you felt you paid t he entire
23 bill up front and shouldn't have had to pay more money; is
24 that right?
25 A Yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3746
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 Q And you were satisfied with the benefits provided by
2 Who's Who Worldwide up until the point that you got that

3 second invoice for $101; isn't that fair to say?

4 A Well, without having seen the directory, yes, more or

5 less, I was satisfied to that point.

6 Q You didn't feel you had been taken?

7 A No.

8 Q You didn't feel that any crime had been committed?

9 A Not in my mind.
10 Q You didn't feel any crime had been committed until
11 you were solicited by the government; isn't that fair to
12 say?
13 A I had no knowledge of a crime being committed, right.
14 Q You didn't feel wronged, I mean you personally, you
15 didn't feel wron ged in any way?
16 A I didn't feel I got my money's worth for $300 that I
17 paid since I didn't receive the directory.
18 Q And that was in part because of this $101 that Who's
19 Who was speaking and you didn't feel you should pay; is
20 that right?
21 A That's right.
22 Q You didn't file a complaint with the local district
23 attorney in Las Vegas, did you?
24 A No, I didn't.
25 Q Did you call up the United States District Attorney's

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3747
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 office in Las Vegas Nevada --
2 A No, I didn't.

3 Q Let me finish my question: And tell them you were

4 somehow snookered out of $100?

5 A No, I did not.

6 Q So, the first time you had any idea that there was a

7 crime committed was when Mr. Pagano called you; is that

8 right?

9 A That's fa ir to say, yes.
10 Q And up until Mr. Trabulus just showed you that
11 Registry, you had never seen the Registry, have you?
12 A No, I hadn't.
13 Q The government never showed it to you?
14 A No, they did not.
15 Q The government never asked you if you were satisfied
16 with your entry in the registry, right?
17 A Right.
18 Q And they never showed you any of the other names that
19 appeared in the registry; is that right?
20 A No, they did not.
21 Q And as you sit here today, you can't tell us that you
22 are unhappy or happy with that Registry, can you?
23 A No, I can't.
24 MR. GEDULDIG: Judge, I don't think I have any
25 other questions.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3748
Spencer-cross/Geduldig

1 THE COURT: Anyone else?
2 MR. DUNN: I have one or two.

3

4 CROSS-EXAMINATIO N

5 BY MR. DUNN:

6 Q Good morning, Mr. Spencer.

7 A Good morning.

8 Q Mr. Spencer, my name is Thomas Dunn.

9 Mr. Spencer, when you first spoke with Who's Who
10 Worldwide you were in the position with a bank; is that
11 correct?
12 A That's right.
13 Q At some time after that you switched jobs; is that
14 right?
15 A That's correct.
16 Q When you switched jobs, how did you go about doing
17 that? What was your process in doing that?
18 A Well, I was in fact, I guess, not terminated, but my
19 bank was sold to another bank and I was not offered
20 another position with the buyer.
21 Q Okay.
22 As a result of that you started to look for other
23 jobs; is that correct?
24 A That is correct.
25 Q And is it fair to say that you used resumes and

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

37 49
Spencer-cross/Dunn

1 applications in looking for jobs; is that right?
2 A Yes.

3 Q And on your resume, did you make any reference about

4 Who's Who Worldwide?

5 A No, I did not.

6 Q But you displayed the plaque, right?

7 A No, I did not.

8 The plaque --

9 Q Right.
10 A Yes. I displayed that in my office.
11 MR. DUNN: Thank you.
12 THE COURT: Anything else?
13 MR. NELSON: Yes, your Honor.
14
15 CROSS-EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. NELSON:
17 Q Good morning, Mr. Spencer. I am Alan Nelson.
18 When you were questioned by Mr. Geduldig, you
19 indicated that you were satisfied with everything you had
20 received from Who's Who Worldwide up until the time you
21 received the bill indicating that you were required to pay
22 an additional sum for the registry; is that correct?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Now, when y ou first received your first invoice, that
25 was back in approximately April; is that correct?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3750
Spencer-cross/Nelson

1 A April of 1993.
2 Q Right. And at that point in time, and I would like

3 to you look at I believe Government's Exhibit 41-D, the

4 invoice itself reflects, does it not, on the first line,

5 that there is a split billing here; is that correct?

6 A It says that, yes.

7 Q And there is a large form on the bottom which

8 indicates important information?

9 A That's correct.
10 Q Could you just read that into the record at this
11 point, read that to the jury, please.
12 A The blue box at the bottom says: Important
13 information. By membership preference and for your
14 convenience, the membership amounts has been split
15 billed. The final payment as shown is d ue now. Your
16 Who's Who Registry platinum edition would be shipped to
17 you within three to six weeks. After payment is received
18 there are no payments or annual charges after the initial
19 year. We look forward to providing you with important
20 membership privileges and services for many years to come.
21 Q When you applied, it was in April of 1993; is that
22 correct?
23 A I am sorry, when I --
24 Q When you first applied for membership in Who's Who
25 Worldwide?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3751
Spencer-cross/Nelson

1 A Yes, April of 1993.
2 Q The registry or the invoice you received for the

3 registry first came to you in late December, 1993,

4 indicating it was to be published in 1994; is that

5 correct?

6 A I am sorry. The second invoice I received in January

7 of 1994.

8 Q We re you aware, sir -- withdrawn.

9 The manner in which you were solicited for
10 membership in the organization was by means of someone by
11 a telephone who contacted you and spoke to you on the
12 telephone; is that correct?
13 A Initially, that's true.
14 Q Are you aware, sir, that pursuant to the laws of the
15 State of New York, pursuant to Section 396M of the general
16 business laws, Section 3B, it is specifically provided
17 that no person, partnership, firm, association or
18 corporation, or agent or employee thereof who conducts a
19 mail order business, or telephone order business shall
20 accept orders for merchandise which is not anticipated to
21 be available for shipment within 30 days from the date of
22 receipt of the order, together with payment or with charge
23 account authorization in the case of an order remitted
24 through the mail, or within thi rty days from the date the
25 seller debits the buyer's account in the case of an order

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3752
Spencer-cross/Nelson

1 placed by telephone? Were you aware of that, sir?
2 A No, I was not.

3 Q Would it be fair to say, sir, that Who's Who

4 Worldwide was complying with the requirements of New York

5 State law by advising you in advance that it was necessary

6 for them to split-bill you and charge you for the registry

7 within thirty days of the date or the time that the

8 Registry was available to be shipped to you?

9 MS. SCOTT: Objection.
10 THE COURT: Sustained.
11 MR. NELSON: No further questions, your Honor.
12
13 CROSS-EXAMINATION
14 BY MR. SCHOER:
15 Q Good morning, Mr. Spencer.
16 A Good morning.
17 Q There came a time before you had the earlier
18 c onversations with Mr. Pagano that you received a
19 questionnaire from the government; is that correct?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And when you filled out the questionnaire, that was
22 sometime in June of 1995?
23 A That's possible.
24 Q Let me show you 3500JWS-1, and I will ask you whether
25 that's the questionnaire that you filled out.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3753
Spencer-cross/Schoer

1 (Handed to the witness.)
2 A Yes, it is.

3 Q And does that refresh your recollection as to when

4 you filled that out?

5 A The date is dated June 26th, 1995, yes.

6 Q And would you say your memory in June, on June 26th,

7 1995 about the things you testified to is better then than

8 it is now?

9 A No, I would not say that.
10 Q When you filled out this questionnaire, you filled it
11 out truthfully; isn't that correct?
12 A That's correct.
13 Q Do you remember being asked this question in the
14 questionnaire, and giving this response:
15 Question: Were you told the company was
16 member-owned or member-run?
17 Answer: No.
18 Do you remember putting that in the
19 questionnaire?
20 A No, I don't.
21 Q I show you question number 21.
22 (Handed to the witness.)
23 Q Does that refresh your recollection that in the
24 questionnaire you were asked -- that you were told whether
25 the company was member-run or member-owned, you answered

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3754
Spencer-cross/Schoer

1 no?
2 A That's true, I did.

3 Q When you filled out the questionnaire, do you

4 remember being asked this question and giving this answer,

5 number 28:

6 Question: Did you receive all the items you

7 expected?

8 Answer: Yes.

9 Do you remember being asked that question and
10 giving that answer?
11 A No, I don't.
12 Q I will again show you the questionnaire, and I will
13 ask you to look at question 28, and ask you if that
14 refreshes your recollection that you answered the
15 question, did you receive everything that you expected,
16 and your answer was yes?
17 A That's correct.
18 Q You say there came at that time you received a
19 Tribute Magazine?
20 A Yes, I received several of them.
21 Q And I think you indicated something about one of the
22 things you wanted to get from this membership was local
23 conferences and things like that?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And you did receive information about conferences in

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3755
Spencer-cross/Schoer

1 the Tribute Magazine; isn't that correct?
2 A No, I did not. I do not recall ever seeing any

3 conferences that were going to be offered in Las Vegas,

4 Nevada, Arizona, California area.

5 Q But you did receive information about conferences in

6 the Tribute Magazine, not necessarily local conferences,

7 but conferences; isn't that so?

8 A I can't recall at this point as to whether there were

9 any conferences.
10 Q Do you remember talking on February 4th, 1997 with
11 someone from the government named Thomas McLaughlin?
12 A No, I do not.
13 Q Do you remember being interviewed or asked questions
14 by someone from the government 2:45 p.m., February 4th,
15 1997?
16 A No, I do not.
17 Q Do you remember speaking to Mr. Pagano or anyone
18 else, and them asking you whether after you purchased
19 membership you were notified of any seminars or

20 conferences that the company sponsored in mailings or the
21 Tribute Magazine, and answered, after you joined there was
22 no further information except for magazine ads?
23 A Yes.
24 Q So, you did --
25 A That was my answer.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3756
Spencer-cross/Schoer

1 Q What?
2 A That was my answer.

3 Q So you did receive information in the Tribute

4 Magazine about conferences; isn't that so, they were

5 asking him?

6 A I can't say it one way or another.

7 Q I am going to show you what is marked as

8 Defendant's Exhibit J in evidence.

9 (Handed to the witness.)
10 Q As part of the mailings you received from Who's Who
11 Worldwide, did you receive that document?
12 A I don't recall receiving any of the documents.
13 Q When you filled out the questionnaire did you provide

14 copies of documents to the government of things you had
15 received from Who's Who Worldwide?
16 A No, I did not.
17 MR. SCHOER: May I have a second with Mr. White?
18 THE COURT: Yes.
19 (Mr. Schoer confers with Mr. White.)
20 MR. SCHOER: May I have a second, Judge?
21 THE COURT: Yes.
22 MR. SCHOER: Inspector Pagano went to get
23 something out of his files.
24 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
25 proceedings.)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3757
Spencer-cross/Schoer

1 Q Let me just show you the questionnaire one more
2 time. And I will ask you to look at question number 33.

3 (Handed to the witness.)

4 Q Does that refresh your recollection that you attached

5 certain things, documents you had received from Who's Who

6 Worldwide when you returned the questionnaire to the

7 government?

8 A I answered, see attached, which apparently indicates

9 that I did attach something. I can't recall exactly what.
10 Q Well, again I will show you Defendant's Exhibit J,
11 and I will ask you whether that's the document that you
12 attached, or one of the documents you attached to the
13 questionnaire?
14 A I don't believe it was. If I attached anything, it
15 is probably copies of some brochures and other glossy type
16 information that I still have in my possession.
17 Q Let me show you Defendant's Exhibit K for
18 Identification.
19 (Handed to the witness.)
20 Q Is this the copy of the brochure that you received?
21 A I don't believe this is the exact brochure that I
22 received.
23 Q You had indicated, I believe, that you hadn't
24 received any information concerning the CD-ROM; is that
25 correct?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3758
Spencer-cross/Schoer

1 A That's correct. I don't recall receiving anything
2 about the CD.

3 Q You read the Tribute Magazines, right?

4 A Correct.

5 Q And you received documentation concerning benefits;

6 isn't that correct?

7 A Concerning which benefits?

8 Q Well, you received information about member

9 benefits. That's the -- one of the things you put in the
10 questionnaire?
11 A Right. I didn't receive brochures.
12 Q Nothing about the CD-ROM, right?
13 A Right.
14 Q And Defendant's Exhibit J is not one of the brochures
15 received, right?
16 A It doesn't appear to be, no.
17 Q And the other exhibit marked for identification,
18 that's not one of the brochures you received, right?
19 A The letter you showed me?
20 Q Yes.
21 A I don't recall receiving that, no.
22 Q And both of those mentioned the CD-ROM, right?
23 A At least one of them did. I didn't read through the
24 brochure.
25 Q And the Tribute Magazines, as far as you know, don't

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3759
Spencer-cross/Schoer

1 have advertisements for the CD-ROM?
2 A I don't recall any, no.

3 Q And they don't have the list where the benefits are

4 listed that says there is a CD-ROM?

5 A No. The magazine itself.

6 Q You said, I believe, that you received about a half a

7 dozen magazines; is that right?

8 A Yes.

9 Q I will show you four of them that are marked in
10 evidence.
11 (Handed to the witness.)
12 Q Is it fair to say that those are the ones that you
13 received?
14 A Yes, they appear to be the same or similar as what I
15 had received.
16 Q I wi ll show you this advertisement in Gordon
17 Exhibit F. Is that an advertisement for the CD-ROM?
18 (Handed to the witness.)
19 A Yes, it is.
20 Q I will show you the list of benefits in Gordon
21 Exhibit F. Does it indicate that there is a CD-ROM
22 available?
23 A Yes, it does.
24 Q I will show you the list of benefits in Gordon
25 Exhibit C. Does it indicate there is a CD-ROM available,

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3760
Spencer-cross/Schoer

1 sir?
2 A Yes, it does.

3 Q I will show you the list of benefits in Gordon

4 Exhibit D, does it indicate that there is a CD-ROM

5 available?

6 A Yes, it does.

7 Q You got those magazines, right?

8 A I probably did.

9 Q As you sit there right now, do you know for a fact
10 whether or not -- well, did the government inform you
11 whet her or not anyone had ever nominated you for inclusion
12 in membership?
13 A They informed me that in fact my name came from a
14 mailing list.
15 Q They told you that?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Or they told you many people's names came from a
18 mailing list?
19 A I don't remember which.
20 Q They didn't tell you that in fact your name came from
21 a mailing list, did they?
22 A Well, I believe they suggested it fairly
23 definitively.
24 Q Did they tell you that there were nomination cards
25 with respect to members?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3761
Spencer-cross/Schoer

1 A They did not tell me, but I do in fact recall
2 receiving nomination cards for the purpose of nominating

3 additional members.

4 Q Right.

5 And also in the Tribute Magazine, there were

6 forms for nominating additional members; isn't that

7 correct?

8 A Probably so. There appears to be.

9 Q So, as you sit there right now, you don't know of
10 your own knowledge whether or not anyone nominated you, do
11 you?
12 A No.
13 MR. SCHOER: I have no further questions, your
14 Honor.
15 MR. JENKS: May I ask one from mere, your Honor?
16 THE COURT: Yes.
17
18 CROSS-EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. JENKS:
20 Q Did the government show you anything that would prove
21 to you beyond a reasonable doubt that your name came from
22 a mailing list?
23 MS. SCOTT: Objection.
24 THE COURT: Sustained.
25 Q Did the government show you anything to demonstrate

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3762
Spencer-cross/Jenks

1 to you that your name came from a mailing list?
2 A No, they did not.

3 MR. JEN KS: No further questions, your Honor.

4 THE COURT: Any redirect?

5 I am sorry, Mr. Lee.

6

7 CROSS-EXAMINATION

8 BY MR. LEE:

9 Q Mr. Spencer, in your -- prior to you testifying did
10 the government inform you that the Who's Who organization
11 itself had an internal criteria, a selective criteria that
12 had to be met before they would even call or contact
13 someone?
14 MS. SCOTT: Objection.
15 Q Did they ever inform you of that?
16 A The government never said anything like that. But
17 the person who called me said something like that.
18 Q If you can just answer the question --
19 MS. SCOTT: Objection.
20 THE COURT: We have now three people talking at
21 the same time. It is difficult for two to do that. Now
22 we have three.
23 MR. LEE: If I may --
24 THE COURT: You may not.
25 MR. LEE: I would like to rephrase the question.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3763
Spencer-cross/Lee

1 THE COURT: You may not need to. Let me hear the
2 question, please.

3 (Whereupon, the court reporter reads the

4 requested material.)

5 THE COURT: I will overrule the objection and

6 allow the answer to stand. I will overrule both

7 objections.

8 MR. LEE: Fine, Judge.

9 THE COURT: Your objection and Ms. Scott's
10 objection.
11 That reminds me of a Broadway show called Fiddler
12 on the Roof. In the show, the main character, who is
13 called Tevya, T E V Y A, said on several occasions, you
14 know, you're right and you're right, pointing to both.
15 In this case both lawyers' objections are
16 overruled because they are both wrong.
17 I hope I didn't throw you off too much, Mr. Lee.
18 MR. LEE: I am trying to ingest what you said
19 first, Judge, before I proceed.
20 Judge, I have no further questions.
21 THE COURT: Anybody else?
22 MR. NEVILLE: Yes, your Honor.
23
24
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3764
Spencer-cross/Neville

1 CROSS-EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. NEVILLE:

3 Q Hi, Mr. Spencer. I am Jim Neville.

4 Mr. Spencer, you had a conversation with someone

5 at Who's Who; you got this bill that you weren't going to

6 pay, the extra bill, right?

7 A The second invoice, correct, I did not pay.

8 Q But you had a telephone conversation with someone

9 about that invoice, didn't you?
10 A Someone did follow up and contact me as to why I had
11 not paid the bill.
12 Q Do you know who that person was with whom you spoke?
13 A No, I don't.
14 Q Any idea?
15 A No.
16 Q Did the y give you your name -- their name?
17 A They may have. I don't recall it.
18 Q You have no recollection, do you?
19 A No.
20 Q Could that person have been Carl Roper?
21 A I don't believe so. I seem to recall speaking to a
22 woman exclusively in my dealings with Who's Who.
23 Q Would that person have been Jill Barnes?
24 A It could have been.
25 Q Now, you spoke about being required to come here to

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3765
Spencer-cross/Neville

1 testify, right?
2 A I said that, yes.

3 Q But you didn't receive a subpoena from anyone you

4 said, too; right?

5 A No, I didn't.

6 Q And correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I heard

7 you refer to Mr. Pagano as Al. Did I hear you say that?

8 A Yes, I said Al Pagano.

9 Q No, no, no. Did you say in a sentence in testifying
10 in court, referring to Al Pagano, as Al and nothing else,
11 just Al? Did you say that?
12 A I may have.
13 Q Well you don't remember?
14 Let me ask you this: Did you refer to Mr. White
15 as Ron?
16 A I may have.
17 Q How many times did you speak with Mr. White, or Ron,
18 however you would like to call him?
19 A I believe I said I have spoken with him two to three
20 times.
21 Q You live in Las Vegas, right?
22 A Right.
23 Q You flew into New York?
24 A Correct.
25 Q When did you fly in?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3766
Spencer-cross/Neville

1 A Last night.
2 Q Who paid for your ticket?

3 A I suppose the government did.

4 Q You didn't have to buy a ticket?

5 A No, I didn't.

6 Q How did you get on the plane without a ticket?

7 A Well, they told me it was an E ticket, and all I had

8 to do was to show identification at the ticket counter.

9 Q Pretty good.
10 So you just showed your driver's license and they
11 put you on the plane?
12 A Correct.
13 Q Did you have to say that Ron sent you to get you on
14 the plane?
15 MR. WHITE: That would not get him on the plane.
16 MR. NEVILLE: Something got on the plane?
17 A I didn't have to say that Ron sent me.
18 Q How about Al? Did you say that Al --
19 A I didn't have to say that Al sent me, or sent for me.
20 Q Did they give you a regular seat on the plane?
21 MS. SCOTT: Objection.
22 THE COURT: Sustained.
23 Q And it was your testimony, was it not, sir --
24 withdrawn.
25 Sir, I don't mean to think, to have you think

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3767
Spencer-cross/Neville

1 that thi s isn't a serious matter. Do you know that this
2 is a criminal case?

3 A Yes, I do.

4 Q The government told you it was a criminal case?

5 A Yes, they did.

6 Q Did the government tell you who was on trial here?

7 A They mentioned several times that the case was

8 titled, U.S. v. Gordon. I don't have an idea as to the

9 other defendants, if any.
10 Q You have no idea who else is on trial?
11 A No, I don't.
12 Q You have no idea who else is on trial and facing a
13 possible jail sentence in this case?
14 A No, I don't.
15 MS. SCOTT: Objection.
16 THE COURT: Sustained.
17 Strike out the answer. The jury is instructed to
18 disregard it.
19 Q Did Ron or Al --
20 THE COURT: Mr. Neville, don't do that again.
21 You have done it several times and I have sustained the
22 objection. And you understand that I don't want you to

23 get into that subject.
24 MR. NEVILLE: I am sorry.
25 THE COURT: Okay.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3768
Spencer-cross/Neville

1 Q Did Mr. White or Mr. Pagano, either of you tell --
2 either of them tell you that a company by the name of Reed

3 Elsevir sued Who's Who?

4 MS. SCOTT: Objection.

5 THE COURT: I assume this is going somewhere

6 relevant.

7 MR. NEVILLE: I think it is, Judge.

8 THE COURT: Okay, I will allow it. Overruled.

9 MR. NEVILLE: Thank you.
10 A No, they did not tell me that.
11 MR. NEVILLE: Thank you. I have no further
12 questions.
13 THE COURT: Anybody else?
14 You have some redirect?
15 MS. SCOTT: I have some redirect.
16 THE COURT: We will take a ten-minute recess.
17 Please do not discuss the case, and keep an open
18 mind. Please recess yourse lves.
19 (Whereupon, at this time the jury leaves the
20 courtroom.)
21
22 (Whereupon, a recess is taken.)
23
24
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3769
Spencer-cross/Neville

1 THE CLERK: Jury entering.
2 (Whereupon, the jury at this time entered the

3 courtroom.)

4 THE COURT: Please be seated, members of the

5 jury.

6 You may proceed.

7

8 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

9 BY MS. SCOTT:
10 Q Mr. Spencer, do you remember being asked questions on
11 cross-examination about your job duties?
12 A Yes, I do.
13 Q And specifically, do you remember being asked
14 questions what you were doing at Primerit Bank?
15 A Yes, I do.
16 Q Do you remember testifying that your position was
17 that of a junior officer?
18 A Yes, I said that.
19 Q Can you tell us what you meant by that?
20 A Well, I was not a member of senior management in the
21 sense that I had a large number of people reporting to me,
22 nor that I had significant decision making authority on
23 the order of, you know, company wide type decisions.
24 Q Now, do you recall being asked questions about
25 whether you made any kind of complaints about your

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3770
Spencer-redirect/Scott

1 relationship with Who's Who Worldwide?
2 A Yes, I was asked that.

3 Q Do you remember testifying that you never made any

4 kind of complaint up until the time you received the

5 questionnaire from the postal inspectors?

6 A I did say that, and I wouldn't really even

7 characterize the questionnaire as a complaint.

8 Q And do you remember testifying that other than your

9 discussions with Who's Who Worldwide about that additional
10 invoice, you never made any other kinds of complaint to
11 any other agency?
12 A That's correct.
13 Q Now, up until the time that you got this
14 questionnaire, what did you believe about how you had been
15 selected for membership?
16 A I believed that I had been nominated by someone known
17 to me, most likely in Las Vegas.
18 Q Now, you were asked questions about the CD-ROM that
19 Who's Who Worldwide offered; do you recall that?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And do you recall being shown magazines where the
22 CD-ROM was advertised?
23 A Yes, I was.
24 Q And do you remember being asked whether you made any
25 attempts to take advantage of the CD-ROM?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3771
Spencer-redirect/Scott

1 A Yes, I was.
2 Q Do you know whether the CD-R OM cost extra money?

3 A Yes, I do. It did.

4 Q Do you remember how much it cost?

5 A It seems something on the order of $130, according to

6 what I just saw this morning.

7 Q Do you remember Mr. Trabulus asking you about a good

8 feeling that you got from being approached by Who's Who

9 Worldwide?
10 A Yes, I do.
11 Q And do you remember him asking you whether it stroked
12 your ego?
13 A Yes, I do.
14 Q Do you remember him asking you whether that good
15 feeling came about before you actually purchased the
16 membership?
17 A Yes, I do.
18 Q Can you tell us what that good feeling was based on?
19 A It was based on the representation that was made to
20 me that, again, someone had nominated me for inclusion in
21 the organization and the Registry.
22 MS. SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. Spencer.
23 I have no further questions.

24
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3772
Spencer-recross/Trabulus

1 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. TRABULUS:

3 Q Mr. Spencer, I should have told you before, that I am

4 Norman Trabulus, and Bruce Gordon sent me.

5 Incidentally, you said you are familiar with the

6 name of the defendant Gordon; is that correct?

7 A That's correct.

8 Q And you have never spoken to him; is that correct?

9 A That's correct.
10 Q And as you sit here today you have no knowledge of
11 what involvement -- no knowledge of what involvement he
12 had with Who's Who Worldwide; is that correct?
13 A I know in fact he was the president which was
14 indicated on some of the brochures and literature I saw
15 this morning, as well as that I had received in the mail.
16 Q You also have no knowledge as to whether he himself

17 was personally involved in determining that the people who
18 spoke to you said the things that they said to you; is
19 that right?
20 A I have no knowledge of that, right.
21 Q Now, you were asked by Ms. Scott things about your
22 job duties.
23 Is that correct that as an assistant vice
24 president you were a risk manager?
25 A That was not my official title.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3773
Spencer-recross/Trabulus

1 Q Was that something you actually did?
2 A Risk management is something I did, correct.

3 Q Was that managing risks for clients of the bank or

4 for the bank itself?

5 A Managing risk of the bank itself.

6 Q Did that involve you performing functions as a loan

7 officer?

8 A No, it did not.

9 Q Did it involve you dealing with customers of the
10 bank?
11 A No, i t did not.
12 Q While you were at the bank, did you have dealings
13 with customers of the bank?
14 A No.
15 Q Did you have any need --
16 THE COURT: You will have to slow down,
17 Mr. Trabulus.
18 MR. TRABULUS: Sure.
19 THE COURT: I lost you about two questions back.
20 Now, the jury, of course, kept up with you. I didn't.
21 If you want me to hear and have it register, you
22 will have to slow down.
23 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, I shall repeat the
24 last question.
25 Q Mr. Spencer, did you yourself have any need in your

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3774
Spencer-recross/Trabulus

1 work to deal with customers of the bank?
2 A No, I did not.

3 Q Did your work involve getting more customers for the

4 bank?

5 A No, it did not.

6 Q In what respect would networking have assist ed you in

7 your work for the bank when you were working at the bank?

8 A In my work for the bank it may have introduced me to

9 representatives of securities firms that we may have done
10 business with, at well as perhaps to find other
11 employment, should the need have arisen.
12 Q Now, the networking you were considering doing, was
13 networking that would have been within the Las Vegas area;
14 is that correct?
15 A Las Vegas, or the southwestern U.S.
16 Q If I were to tell you that there were 270 members of
17 Who's Who Worldwide who gave their city or location as
18 being Las Vegas, would that affect your judgment as to the
19 potential value that the CD-ROM might have had for
20 networking?
21 A Are you asking me today or at the time I would have
22 made a purchase decision?
23 Q Well, let me break it down.
24 Is it your understanding that a CD-ROM might
25 enable you to access information on the CD-ROM by

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3775
Spencer-recross/Trabulus

1 different parameters?
2 A Yes.

3 Q And would it surprise you if I told you that one of

4 the parameters on which you can access the information on

5 the CD-ROM that was published by Who's Who Worldwide was

6 by city location?

7 A No, it wouldn't.

8 Q Or by state, would that surprise to you?

9 A No, it wouldn't surprise me.
10 Q Going back to the time you first learned or heard
11 about the CD-ROM, would it have affected your judgment of
12 the possible value of the CD-ROM in networking, if you
13 would have known that there were 270 members in Las Vegas?
14 A Perhaps.
15 Q And that could have been of assistance to you in
16 networking; is that correct?
17 A It cou ld have.
18 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, I placed
19 Defendant's Exhibit S in the CD-ROM player, and if I may
20 approach the witness with my computer?
21 THE COURT: Yes.
22 (Counsel approaches the witness stand.)
23 Q Mr. Spencer, if you bear with me while I boot this
24 up.
25 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3776
Spencer-recross/Trabulus

1 proceedings.)
2 MR. TRABULUS: Your Honor, bear with me a moment.

3 THE COURT: That's all right. You are doing

4 better than I would have done with it, I can tell you

5 that. I don't know anything about it.

6 MR. TRABULUS: I may have to reboot.

7 THE COURT: Reboot? What does that mean?

8 MR. TRABULUS: Start the computer again. It sent

9 me one of those magic messages that I can't figure out.
10 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
11 proceedings.)
12 MR. TRABULUS: It was working well during
13 Ms. Scott's redirect. But it is failing for me, your
14 Honor.
15 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
16 proceedings.)
17 Q Mr. Spencer, do you see on the screen in front of
18 you, a heading, Who's Who Executive Club, and a list of
19 slots where various things could be entered?
20 A Yes, I do.
21 Q And have I just typed in Las Vegas?
22 A You have.
23 Q Has the number 270 just appeared on the screen?
24 A It has.
25 Q Has a list just appeared?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3777
Spencer-recross/Trabulus

1 A There is a list of the names, yes.
2 Q Would you please take a look at the names on the

3 left-hand corner, the first one being Abbott, the last

4 name Bevins, B E V I N S, in alphabetical order.

5 Just tell me if you recognize any of those

6 names.

7 A Personally, I do not recognize any of the names.

8 Q Have I scrolled down to another set of names?

9 A The next page, yes. You scrolled.
10 Q Now it says 21 out of 270?
11 A Yes, it does.
12 Q So, we are on the 21st name at the top of the page?
13 A It seems to be, yes.
14 Q Would you take a look at the rest of the names on
15 that page and tell me whether you recognize any of those.
16 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
17 proceedings.)
18 A I recognize one name.
19 Q Which name do you recognize?
20 A Gerlyn J. Clayton, C L A Y T O N, first name,
21 G E R L Y N, Gerlyn.
22 Q Who is that person?
23 A I believe that is a president or other officer of a
24 company called Consolidated Mortgage Corp.
25 Q In your business did you ever have any business with,

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3778
Spencer-recross/Trabulus

1 is it Mr. or Ms. Clayton?
2 A I believe it is Ms. Clayton. I personally did not.

3 Q Would Ms. Clayton be someone you might have occasion

4 to network in the course of your work at the bank?

5 A Perhaps.

6 Q Would you be able to network with Ms. Clayton

7 regardless of whether or not your name came from a mailing

8 list or had been nominated by another person?

9 A Potentially, yes.
10 Q And regardless of whether Ms. Clayton's name had come
11 from a mailing list, or nominated by another person, it
12 would not affect as to whether you would be able to
13 nominate with that person?
14 A Been able to network?
15 Q With Ms. Clayton.
16 A To be able to network with Ms. Clayton?
17 Q Correct.
18 A No, it would not be affected.
19 Q Now, have I put on the screen an entry for
20 information concerning Ms. Clayton?
21 A You have.
22 Q And it indicates among other things, her favorite
23 magazine is Money; does it not?
24 A It does.
25 Q Among hobbies and sports, she likes hiking and

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3779
Spencer-recross/Trabulus

1 football?
2 A It does.

3 Q Would this not be of some use if you were to have an

4 initial conversation with her just to enable you to be

5 able to strike up a conversation?

6 A Potentially it could have some use, yes.

7 Q I am going beyond another page beyond Ms. Clayton.

8 Take a look to see if there are any names there that might

9 be of use to you -- I am sorry, that are familiar to you?
10 A I don't recognize any other names there.
11 Q Continuin g with another page, do you see any more?
12 Again, take a look at it and see if there are any names
13 that are familiar.
14 A I don't recognize any of those names either.
15 Q Do you see any on this page?
16 A Names that are familiar to me?
17 Q Yes.
18 A No, I don't.
19 Q 81 out of 270 at the top of the page?
20 A Correct.
21 Q Okay, we will not proceed any further.
22 Now, Mr. Spencer, is it fair to say that you
23 would be able to network with people potentially whether
24 or not you would have known them in advance of joining the
25 organization; is that correct?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3780
Spencer-recross/Trabulus

1 A Yes, that's fair to say.
2 Q In fact, based upon your testimony you expected that

3 among all the people in Who's Who Worldwide, there would

4 be certainly one t hat you might have known; is that

5 correct?

6 A Yes.

7 Q The person whom you believed nominated you; is that

8 correct?

9 A That's correct.
10 Q And, again, you don't know as you sit here today as
11 to whether anybody did nominate you; isn't that correct?
12 A No, I don't.
13 Q Of all the other members of Who's Who Worldwide, you
14 would have no reason to believe that any of them may have
15 known you except insofar as the type of person they were,
16 the type of profession they had, that might cause them to
17 run across you; is that correct?
18 A Can you restate or repeat the question?
19 Q Sure.
20 Basically is it fair to say that except for the
21 person who nominated you, you would have no reason to
22 expect that you would have known anybody else?
23 A Well, I possibly could have known other people.
24 Q For example, and ce rtainly you knew the name of this
25 person that you saw; is that correct?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3781
Spencer-recross/Trabulus

1 A I knew the name, not the person.
2 Q Did you know a Karen Klein at Primerit Bank?

3 A Yes, I did.

4 Q Did you know she was a member of Who's Who Worldwide?

5 A No, I didn't.

6 Q Did you ask her as to whether or not she nominated

7 you?

8 A No, I didn't.

9 MR. TRABULUS: No other questions.
10 THE COURT: Anything else?
11 MS. SCOTT: Yes. May I ask from here?
12 THE COURT: Sure.
13
14 FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION
15 BY MS. SCOTT:
16 Q You just had been looking at several entries from the
17 CD-ROM; is that correct?
18 A I am sorry?
19 Q Several entries from the CD-ROM.
20 A Yes, correct.
21 Q Did you ever see a directory produced by Who's Who
22 Worldwide before today?
23 A No, I didn't.
24 Q Did you ever see that information you had seen today
25 before today?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3782
Spencer-redirect/Scott

1 A No.
2 Q Now, when you spent $290 on this membership, were you

3 interested in networking with the people whose names were

4 taken from a mailing list?

5 A No, I was not.

6 Q And if the names had been taken from a mailing list,

7 is that something you would have wanted to know before

8 making a purchase?

9 A Yes, I would have wanted to know that.
10 MS. SCOTT: May I have one moment, your Honor?
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
13 proceedings.)
14 MS. SCOTT: Thank you, no questions.
15 MR. JENKS: Just one, may I ask it from here?
16 TH E COURT: Yes.
17
18 FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. JENKS:
20 Q The government makes an issue about the mailing list,
21 you heard position Scott ask you those questions?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Is it possible, and I use the words "possible" as you
24 sit here, that you were in fact nominated by someone else?
25 A To my knowledge it is possible.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3783
Spencer-redirect/Jenks

1 MR. JENKS: Thank you.
2 THE COURT: Anything else?

3 MR. WHITE: Nothing further.

4 THE COURT: You may step down, Mr. Spencer.

5 Please call your next witness.

6 (Whereupon, at this time the witness left the

7 witness stand.)

8 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, we will call some tapes

9 at this point.
10 THE COURT: Very well.
11 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, we are starting with
12 Exh ibit 1312. We are going to play the excerpt that is 13
13 12-B, for Baker.
14 The date of the conversation is October 28th,
15 1994. It is a call to Sterling Who's Who. The
16 salesperson on the tape at Sterling Who's Who is
17 identified as Robert Stanley, S T A N L E Y.
18 MR. SCHOER: So this is being offered only
19 against Sterling Who's Who?
20 MR. WHITE: Yes.
21 THE COURT: This is offered only against the
22 defendant Sterling Who's Who, members of the jury.
23 You may proceed.
24 (Tape is played.)
25 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, the next is

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3784
1 Exhibit 1317. We are going to play the excerpt which is
2 1317-A. The date of that conversation is November 3rd,

3 1994. It is a call to Who's Who Worldwide. And the

4 salesperson is Roseanne Patton, P A T T O N.

5 THE COURT: Roseanne --

6 MR. WHITE: Patton, like the general.

7 MR. NELSON: Again, your Honor, this is only

8 admissible against Who's Who Worldwide; is that correct?

9 MR. WHITE: That's correct, your Honor.
10 THE COURT: This evidence is only admissible
11 against the defendant Who's Who Worldwide, that's all.
12 (Tape is played.)
13 MR. NEVILLE: Was that name Rosemary or
14 Roseanne?
15 MR. WHITE: Roseanne.
16 MR. NEVILLE: Thank you.
17 MR. WHITE: The next exhibit is 1321, the excerpt
18 is 1321 A in the transcript book, the date of the
19 conversation is November 7th, 1994. It is a call to
20 Sterling Who's Who. And the salesperson is Sam
21 Christopher.
22 (Tape is played.)
23 MR. WHITE: The next exhibit is 1339. The
24 excerpt is 1339-B, for Baker in the transcript book. The
25 date is December 23rd, 1994. The call is to Who's Who

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3785
1 Worldwide. The salesperson is Sue Mantell, M A N T E L L.
2 (Tape is played.)

3 MR. WHITE: The next tape is 1343. The excerpt

4 is 1343-A. The date is January 23rd, 1995. It is a call

5 to Who's Who Worldwide. The salesperson is Linda May,

6 M A Y.

7 (Tape is played.)

8 MR. WHITE: The next is 1345, your Honor. The

9 excerpt is 1345-A.
10 THE COURT: Hold it a minute, please.
11 MR. WHITE: I am sorry.
12 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
13 proceedings.)
14 THE COURT: Would you repeat that.
15 MR. WHITE: Sure.
16 1345 is the exhibit. 1345-A is the transcript
17 excerpt. The date is January 25th, 1995. The call is to
18 Sterling Who's Who. And the salesperson is Paul Ware,
19 W A R E.
20 (Tape is played.)
21 M R. WHITE: The next one is 1348. The excerpt is
22 1348-A. The date is February 1st, 1995. The call is to
23 Sterling Who's Who. And the salesperson is Michael Cain,
24 C A I N.
25 (Tape is played.)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3786
1 MR. WHITE: The next one is 1349. The excerpt is
2 1349-B, as in Baker. The date is February 2nd, 1995. It

3 is a call to Who's Who Worldwide. The salesperson is

4 Scott Matthews, M A T T H E W S.

5 (Tape is played.)

6 MR. WHITE: The next one is 1353. The excerpt is

7 1353 A. The date is November 30th, 1994. The call is to

8 Sterling Who's Who. And the salesperson is Michael Cain,

9 C A I N.
10 THE COURT: Hold it for a minute, please.
11 MR. WHITE: Yes.
12 THE COURT: You may proceed.
13 (Tape is played.)
14 MR. WHITE: The next one is 1362. The excerpt is

15 1362-A, the date of the all is December 21st, 1994. The
16 call is to Who's Who Worldwide. And the salesperson is
17 Jill Barnes.
18 (Tape is played.)
19 MR. WHITE: The next one is 1364. The excerpt is
20 1364-A, the date is December 23rd, 1994. The call is to
21 Who's Who Worldwide. And the salesperson is Greg Miller.
22 MR. NEVILLE: Sorry, I didn't hear that name.
23 MR. WHITE: Greg Miller.
24 MR. NEVILLE: Thank you.
25 (Tape is played.)

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3787
1 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, the next one is 1365.
2 The excerpt is 1365-A. The date is December 23rd, 1994.

3 The call is to Worldwide. And the salesperson is Roseanne

4 Patton, P A T T O N.

5 THE COURT: What was the last name?

6 MR. WHITE: Patton, P A T T O N.

7 (Tape is played.)

8 THE COURT: I think we will recess at this time.

9 If you are sufficiently unentangled by the wires
10 and head phones, we will recess for lunch until 1:30.
11 Please do not discuss the case. Keep an open
12 mind. See you at 1:30.
13 Have a nice lunch.
14 (Whereupon, at this time the jury leaves the
15 courtroom.)
16 (Luncheon Recess.)
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3788
1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N
2

3 THE COURT: Is someone missing here?

4 MR. WALLENSTEIN: Mr. Geduldig went to get his

5 client.

6 THE CLERK: Jury entering.

7 (Whereupon, the jury at this time entered the

8 courtroom.)

9 THE COURT: Please be seated, members of the
10 jury.
11 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, the government calls
12 Debra Be njamin.
13 THE CLERK: Please raise your right hand.
14
15 D E B R A B E N J A M I N ,
16 called as a witness, having been first
17 duly sworn, was examined and testified
18 as follows:
19
20 THE CLERK: Please state your name and spell your
21 last name slowly for the record.
22 THE WITNESS: Debra Benjamin, B E N J A M I N,
23 first name, D E B R A.
24 MR. WHITE: May I proceed, your Honor?
25 THE COURT: Yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3789
1 MR. WHITE: Thank you.
2

3 DIRECT EXAMINATION

4 BY MR. WHITE:

5 Q Ms. Benjamin, can you tell us where you live?

6 A The street address?

7 Q No, what town?

8 A Island Park, New York.

9 Q And where do you work?
10 A I have my own gift shop in Long Beach.
11 Q And are you married?
12 A I am g etting married.
13 Q When are you getting married?
14 A Saturday.
15 Q Now, did you previously work at a company called
16 Who's Who Worldwide Registry?
17 A Yes, I did.
18 Q Can you tell us approximately when you worked there?
19 THE COURT: First of all, I can hardly hear you,
20 Ms. Benjamin. Pull the microphone closer to you, please.
21 And keep your voice up.
22 THE WITNESS: Okay.
23 It was in the fall of 1992, to March of 1995, I
24 believe.
25 Q And can you tell us what your position there was?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3790
Benjamini-direct/White

1 A Director of marketing and executive editor of Tribute
2 Magazine.

3 Q And let's start with director of marketing. Tell us

4 what your responsibilities were in that position?

5 A Basically it was to prepare the -- produce and

6 oversee the production of the solicitation letters,

7 provide benefits for the members, and then eventually, you

8 know, Tribute Magazine came about.

9 Q Tell us what you did in connection with Tribute
10 Magazine?
11 A I oversaw the whole production of it, including the
12 editorial staff.
13 Q Now, have you been granted immunity in connection
14 with your testimony at this trial?
15 A Yes, I have.
16 Q Is that grant of immunity set forth in a letter from
17 the U.S. Attorney's office?
18 A Yes, it is.
19 Q Tell us your understanding of the effect of that
20 immunity letter?
21 A The effect is I will not be prosecuted unless I was
22 to perjure myself.
23 Q Did you have any responsibilities at Who's Who
24 Worldwide with respect to the mailing of letters to
25 customers?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPOR TER

3791
Benjamini-direct/White

1 A Yes, I did.
2 Q Tell us what responsibility you had with respect to

3 that?

4 A Overseeing the entire production including the

5 purchase of the mailing lists themselves.

6 Q Did your responsibilities with respect to these

7 letters relate to Who's Who Worldwide only, or Sterling

8 Who's Who also?

9 A To both companies.
10 Q Now, the letters to be sent to both companies -- by
11 both companies, who would draft the language in that
12 letter?
13 A Mr. Gordon.
14 Q Who had the final approval over the language in those
15 letters?
16 A Mr. Gordon.
17 Q Now, Ms. Benjamin, in the binder I placed before you,
18 if you would take a look at the Exhibits 101 through 104
19 for Identification.
20 (Handed to the witness.)
21 Q Just page through and take a look at each one of

22 them.
23 A All right.
24 Q Now, first of all, do you recognize what those are?
25 A Yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3792
Benjamini-direct/White

1 Q What are they?
2 A Those are drafts of the solicitation letters.

3 Q Are there any handwritten edits to the body of those

4 letters?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Do you recognize whose handwriting the edits are in?

7 A Most are Mr. Gordon's. On 104 there is one of mine

8 where it says you may even.

9 Q Okay.
10 Now, when Mr. Gordon would include the language
11 to be included in a solicitation letter, how would he
12 indicate his approval?
13 A You mean when it was ready to be produced?
14 Q Yes.
15 A It would have to have -- it would say okay, BG.
16 Q Now, if you could turn in that binder to Exhibits 106
17 through 138 for Identif ication.
18 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
19 proceedings.)
20 Q Have you paged through each of them?
21 A Yes.
22 Q In addition to just now, have you also reviewed these
23 exhibits prior to your testimony?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Tell us what they are.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3793
Benjamini-direct/White

1 A They are final copies of the solicitation letters
2 that were going to be produced, produced for mailings.

3 Q Do they contain any notation of approval?

4 A Yes.

5 Q What sort of notation of approval do they contain?

6 A They have my okay and Mr. Gordon's okay.

7 Q Now, when a letter was finalized and mailed out to a

8 potential customer, would a copy of the letter be retained

9 by Worldwide or Sterling?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Who was responsible for maintaining copies of these
12 letters?
13 A Liz Sautter.
14 Q Tell us who Liz Sautter is?
15 A She was the office manager.
16 Q The office manager for which company?
17 A Who's Who Worldwide.
18 Q Did she perform that function with respect to the
19 Sterling letters as well?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Now, where is it that Ms. Sautter would maintain
22 these letters?
23 A They were in binders kept in the administration
24 office.
25 Q Would any notation be made on these letters before

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3794
Benjamini-direct/White

1 being placed in these binders?
2 A Yes.

3 Q First of all, who would put the notation in?

4 A In most cases it would be Liz.

5 Q And what sort of notation would she put?

6 A It would have what list it was, what mailing house

7 took care of it, how many p ieces were mailed, and any code

8 on the BRC, business reply card.

9 Q And the business reply card would be included with
10 the letter?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And would Ms. Sautter type or handwrite this
13 information?
14 A Handwrite.
15 Q And generally speaking, where on the letter would
16 those handwritten notations been made?
17 A Usually at the top.
18 Q If you can now look at Exhibits 139 through 286,
19 which is the balance of that binder.
20 THE COURT: Is this for identification?
21 MR. WHITE: Yes, for identification, your Honor.
22 I am sorry.
23 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
24 proceedings.)
25 THE WITNESS: Mr. White, do you want me to go

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3795
Benjamini-direct/White

1 through it page by page?
2 Q Let me ask you this --

3 THE COURT: Have you gone through them before?

4 THE WITNESS: Yes.

5 MR. WHITE: That was my question.

6 THE COURT: Okay.

7 Q Have you previously reviewed this before your trial

8 testimony?

9 A Yes.
10 Q Let me also show you Government's Exhibit 1100
11 through 1146, also for identification.
12 (Handed to the witness.)
13 Q Have you also reviewed those prior to trial?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Of those, 139 through 286 and 1100 through 1146, can
16 you tell us what they are?
17 A Those are final copies of the actual letters that
18 actually went out in the mail.
19 Q And how is it that you recognize them?
20 A You mean the notations or the letters themselves?
21 Q How is it you know what they are?
22 A Because I was involved in the production of the
23 letters.
24 Q Do you see handwriting on all or most of the those

25 documents?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3796
Benjamini-direct/White

1 A Yes.
2 Q What handwriting do you see?

3 A Liz, Liz Sautter's handwriting.

4 Q And do you see the notations that you described

5 before?

6 A Yes, I do.

7 Q And what companies are those letters from?

8 A They are from Who's Who Worldwide, and I believe some

9 are from Sterling as well.
10 Q Now, was it the regular practice of Who's Who
11 Worldwide and Sterling Who's Who to make and keep those
12 sort of records?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And were those letters made and kept in the regular
15 course of Worldwide's and Sterling's business?
16 A Yes.
17 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, the government would
18 offer Exhibits 101 through 104, 106 through 286, and 1100
19 through 1146.
20 THE COURT: Any objection?
2 1 MR. TRABULUS: May I have a voir dire, your
22 Honor?
23 THE COURT: Yes.
24
25

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3797
Benjamini-direct/White

1 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. TRABULUS:

3 Q Good afternoon, Ms. Benjamin.

4 A Hello.

5 Q I am Bruce Gordon's lawyer.

6 Are you familiar with the contents of all the

7 exhibits which you have just been asked to identify?

8 A Yes.

9 Q Is it correct that not a single one of those letters
10 states that the person to whom it is addressed necessarily
11 was nominated by another member?
12 MR. WHITE: Objection.
13 THE COURT: Sustained.
14 You can get into that on cross-examination,
15 Mr. Trabulus, if you choose to do so.
16 MR. TRABULUS: No further questions.
17 THE COURT: Any objection?
18 MR. SCHOER: May we object?

19 MR. JENKS: Yes.
20 THE COURT: You object?
21 MR. JENKS: I will object.
22 THE COURT: Did somebody say they want to
23 approach?
24 MR. SCHOER: Yes, your Honor.
25 THE COURT: All right, come up.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3798
Benjamini-direct/White

1
2 (Whereupon, at this time the following took place

3 at the sidebar.)

4 MR. SCHOER: May we just speak among each other,

5 Judge?

6 THE COURT: Sure, go ahead.

7 (Defense counsel confer.)

8 THE COURT: Yes, Mr. Jenks.

9 MR. JENKS: Your Honor, we all address to the
10 introduction of letters here on many grounds.
11 Many of the letters attached to these exhibits
12 actually precede the employment of Ms. Benjamin.
13 Ms. Benjamin testified she was employed in the fall of
14 1992.
15 For instance, Government's E xhibit 139 is dated
16 March 6th, 1990. Government's Exhibit 140, for instance
17 is dated March 25th, 1990. Government's Exhibit 141 is
18 April 1990.
19 Your Honor, there is a whole host of letters he
20 is seeking to introduce through her which was obviously
21 created before she was employed there. So she could not
22 possibly have knowledge as to the creation of these
23 letters and so forth, since she wasn't there.
24 Another thing is many are duplicative in that
25 they say the same exact thing over and over and over

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3799
Benjamini-direct/White

1 again. I think it would be more appropriate and fair to
2 all the defendants if just one copy of a given content of

3 a letter comes in, not 100 different letters saying the

4 same exact thing.

5 Those are the bases of the two objections.

6 THE COURT: The first ground of the objection

7 that some of the letters precede Ms. Benjamin's date of

8 commencement of employment, that is overruled. I think I

9 gave you, and I mentioned authority that the person who
10 identifies the business record need not even be an
11 employee of the corporation.
12 Here is a woman who is pretty high up in the
13 company. She is the head of --
14 MR. WHITE: The director of marking she said.
15 THE COURT: The director of marketing, my
16 goodness. She was also in charge of the book, the
17 magazine. Because the other witness who was here, whose
18 name escapes me?
19 MR. WHITE: Ms. Konopka.
20 THE COURT: Now I know why I didn't remember her
21 name. But she said that Debra Benjamin is her boss. So
22 that objection is overruled. She can certainly identify
23 the records as a business record.
24 The next objection that it is duplicative is
25 overruled. You have a situation where you have 50,000

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3800
Benjamini-direct/White

1 members, and maybe more. Here we don't have anything like
2 that, the number of letters?

3 MR. WHITE: I believe there are 200 over a five

4 year period.

5 THE COURT: These are solicitation letters?

6 MR. SCHOER: They are a form made out to the same

7 person.

8 MR. WHITE: No, they are not. Why don't you read

9 them.
10 THE COURT: They are not duplicative?
11 MR. WHITE: Each one is a version of a letter
12 that was sent out.
13 THE COURT: They are all different?
14 MR. WHITE: They are all different in that
15 sense. They are all different to some degree more or
16 less.
17 THE COURT: They are all different. The drafts
18 are ce rtainly different. Your objection is overruled.
19 Anything else?
20 MR. JENKS: That's it.
21
22 (Whereupon, at this time the following takes
23 place in open court.)
24 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 101 through
25 286 --

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3801
Benjamini-direct/White

1 MR. WHITE: No, your Honor, 101 through 286, but
2 excluding 105.

3 THE COURT: All right, 101 through 286, excluding

4 185 -- 105, and 1100 through 1146 in evidence.

5 (Government's Exhibits 101 through 104 received

6 in evidence.)

7 (Government's Exhibits 106 through 286 received

8 in evidence.)

9 (Government's Exhibits 1100 through 1146 received
10 in evidence.)
11
12 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Cont'd)
13 BY MR. WHITE:
14 Q Ms. Benjamin, from where had the companies obtained
15 the names of the people from which the solicitation
16 letters were sent?
17 A The mailing lists.
18 Q Were you involved in the procurement of those mailing
19 lists?
20 A Yes, I was.
21 Q And who made the final decision at Worldwide and
22 Sterling regarding what mailing list was to be used by the
23 company?
24 A Mr. Gordon.
25 Q Tell us what role you had in the procurement of these

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3802
Benjamini-direct/White

1 mailing lists?
2 A I would get the recommendations from the different

3 list brokers, and go over -- scrutinize them and go over

4 it with Mr. Gordon as to which ones would be best for us

5 to mail.

6 Q Did you mention mailing list brokers before?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Tell us what a mailing lists broker is?

9 A Those are firms or people who have mailing lists
10 available for anyone to use.
11 Q And does the mailing list broker collect a fee?
12 A Yes, they do.
13 Q How does that work?
14 A They charge usually by the thousand for the different
15 names, and if there is a title select or any kind of
16 specification, segmentation of the list.
17 Q Now is the mailing list broker the owner of the list?
18 A No.
19 Q Tell us where the owner of the list fits in?
20 A The owner of the list allows them to broker the list
21 for them. In other words, like a publishing company might
22 rent -- sell their list, it generates revenue.
23 Q Now, can you tell us during the time period you
24 worked at Who's Who Worldwide, who were the primary list
25 brokers that were used by the companies?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3803
Benjamini-direct/White

1 A Tony Murra y and Associates.
2 THE COURT: How do you spell that?

3 THE WITNESS: T O N Y, last name is M U R R A Y

4 Associates.

5 Q Any others?

6 A Yes, Listworks.

7 Q That's L I S T W O R K S?

8 A That's correct.

9 Q All one word?
10 A Uh-huh.
11 Q Now, when the companies would rent a mailing list
12 from a list broker, would they issue any paperwork to the
13 list broker?
14 A Could you ask the question again?
15 Q I will rephrase it.
16 When a company rented a mailing list from a list
17 broker, would they issue a purchase order to the list
18 broker?
19 A Yes.
20 (Handed to the witness.)
21 Q If you can take a look through that binder and flip
22 to Exhibits 323 to 325 for Identification.
23 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
24 proceedings.)
25 Q Do you recognize what Exhibits 323 through 325 are?

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3804
Benjamini-direct/White

1 A Yes. They are purchase orders.
2 THE COURT: Purchase orders for what?

3 THE WITNESS: I am sorry, for mailing lists.

4 Q From whom to whom?

5 A Well, they are from Who's Who to the different list

6 brokers. 323 was not my purchase order. I want you to be

7 aware of that.

8 Q Okay, I understand.

9 Were the purchase orders such as those issued in
10 the regular course of Who's Who Worldwide's business?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Were they made as part of Who's Who Worldwide's
13 regularly conducted business?
14 A Yes.
15 MR. WHITE: The government offers 323 through
16 325.
17 THE COURT: Any objection?
18 MR. TRABULUS: No.
19 THE COURT: Government's Exhibits 323, 324 and
20 325 in evidence.
21 (Government's E xhibit 323 received in evidence.)
22 (Government's Exhibit 324 received in evidence.)
23 (Government's Exhibit 325 received in evidence.)
24 Q Ms. Benjamin, once you rented a list from a list
25 broker, would the list broker provide Worldwide or

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3805
Benjamini-direct/White

1 Sterling with an invoice?
2 A Yes.

3 Q Now, during the course of your duties at Who's Who

4 Worldwide would you have occasion to review those

5 invoices?

6 A On some occasions, yes.

7 Q And if you could turn in that same book to

8 Exhibits 301 through 322.

9 (Whereupon, at this time there was a pause in the
10 proceedings.)
11 Q Have you reviewed those exhibits?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Can you tell us what they are?
14 A List rental invoices.
15 THE COURT: What are they?
16 THE WIT NESS: List rental invoices.
17 Q And from whom are the invoices?
18 A They are from Tony Murray & Associates. They were
19 from Tony Murray & Associates.
20 Q Now, were copies of such invoices regularly retained
21 in Who's Who Worldwide's files?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And was that done in the regular course of
24 Worldwide's business?
25 A Yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3806
Benjamini-direct/White

1 Q And was that done as part of Worldwide's regularly
2 conducted business?

3 A I would think so. It was not something that I did,

4 the actual invoices that was maintained in the

5 administration.

6 Q Were you aware that they were maintained there?

7 A Yes.

8 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, the government would

9 offer Exhibits 301 through 322.
10 THE COURT: Any objection?
11 MR. TRABULUS: No.
12 THE COURT: Government's Exhibits 301 through 322
13 in evidence.
14 (Government's Exhibits 301 through 322 received
15 in evidence.)
16 THE COURT: Incidentally, I don't have any of
17 those exhibits, but continue. Don't worry about that.
18 MR. WHITE: Okay.
19 Q Ms. Benjamin, if you can take a look at this exhibit
20 book.
21 (Handed to the witness.)
22 Q And if you can -- I am going to read off a list of
23 the exhibits, if you can take a look at them.
24 First, 900 through 931 -- actually, let me read
25 the entire list.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3807
Benjamini-direct/White

1 900 through 931, 943 through 948, 950 through
2 1016, 1018, 1025 and 1026, 1028 and 1029.

3 Now, Ms. Benjamin, have you previously reviewed

4 those exhibits?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Can you tell us what they are?

7 A They are invoices from Listworks for list rentals.

8 THE COURT: I didn't hear you.

9 THE WITNESS: Invoices from Listworks for list
10 rentals.
11 Q Were they invoices to Who's Who Worldwide or
12 Sterling?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And were you aware whether or not copies of those
15 invoices were regularly retained in Worldwide's or
16 Sterling's files?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And were they?
19 A Yes, they were.
20 Q And was that done in the regular course of Who's Who
21 Worldwide and Sterling Who's Who's business?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And were they retained as part of the company's
24 regularly conducted business?
25 A Yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3808
Benjamini-direct/White

1 MR. WHITE: Your Honor, the government would
2 offer those exhibits, and I will read t hem again if you

3 like.

4 THE COURT: You don't have to. Any objection?

5 MR. TRABULUS: No.

6 THE COURT: Government's Exhibit 900 through 931,

7 943 through 948, 950 through 1016, 1018, 1025, 1026, 1028

8 and 1029 in evidence.

9 (Government's Exhibits 900 through 931 received
10 in evidence.)
11 (Government's Exhibits 943 through 948 received
12 in evidence.)
13 (Government's Exhibits 950 through 1016 received
14 in evidence.)
15 (Government's Exhibit 1018 received in evidence.)
16 (Government's Exhibit 1025 received in evidence.)
17 (Government's Exhibit 1026 received in evidence.)
18 (Government's Exhibit 1028 received in evidence.)
19 (Government's Exhibit 1029 received in evidence.)
20 Q If you can look at 1024 in evidence, and take it out
21 of plastic sleeve there. Tell us what it is?
22 A A purchase order from Who's Who World wide to Tony
23 Murray & Associates.
24 Q You sent it to the list brokers?
25 A Yes.

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3809
Benjamini-direct/White

1 Q Tell us what the date is?
2 A February 22nd, 1994.

3 Q Is there a signature at the bottom?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Whose signature is that?

6 A It is mine.

7 Q And if you can look through the entire document and

8 the attachments, tell us what the total cost of the list

9 rental is on this purchase order?
10 A $111,320.
11 Q Now, does that document indicate what specific lists
12 are being rented in connection this purchase order?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Where does it indicate that?
15 A On the attachment.
16 Q The attachment is a letter to Tony Murray &
17 Associates from you?
18 A Yes.
19 Q If you can look at the third entry in your letter,
20 the one beginning with Economics Press, and -- I will read
21 it aloud for us slowly.
22 It says Economics Press/select 50,000 actives,
23 A C T I V E S, and 50,000 female subs, S U B S, at $90 per
24 M, capital M, total $9,000.
25 Now, first of all, it says Economics Press, what

HARRY RAPAPORT, CSR, CP, CM OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

3810
Benjamini-direct/White

1 does that refer to?
2 A The name of the publication or publishing company.

3 Q Now, in connection with mailing lists, have you ever

4 heard the term "segment?"

5 A Yes.

6 Q Tell me was a segment of a mailing list is?

7 A A segment of a mailing list is if you specify you

8 want a certain household income or certain gender; many

9 different categories.
10 Q Can the list be broken down by these different
11 segments?
12 A Some lists can and so me can't.
13 Q In this case what segment of the Economics Press list
14 are you ordering?
15 A 50,000 active subscribers and 50,000 female
16 subscribers.
17 THE COURT: 50,000 what? Active?
18 THE WITNESS: Active, meaning current
19 subscribers.
20 Q What does that mean, active subscribers and female
21 subscribers?
22 A For whatever reason this particular company chose to
23 break out their female subscribers who obviously have an
24 interest in economics versus the rest of the population,
25 and the active subscribers would b

Dirtiest Trials of the Twentieth Century The Who's Who Worldwide Registry Tragedy

Dirtiest Trials of the Twentieth Century
The Who's Who Worldwide Registry Tragedy